Maureen Finn, Leader and Talent Developer, on Authentic Leading

Colin Hunter 0:07

Hey folks, and welcome to another episode of the leadership tales podcast. Delighted to be able to share a conversation with a lady who has made a massive, massive impact on our business potential squared. And that lady is Maureen Fin. If I look back to when we really started to shift our focus as a business, it was around the time that we started to work with Akamai with Maureen. She's now gone to Takeda Pharmaceuticals based out of the US, but the lady herself has not changed, and the impact she's had on myself, the business, and the way we work have not changed. And that's this spirit of being able to deep partner with somebody, the spirit to be able to say, we're willing to fail together fail forward towards a purpose. And therefore, over the years, we've been able to partner towards a journey that has Reen seen a massive, significant change in our ability to measure the impact of leadership development, to be able to see a massive difference in the way that we run the academies work with leaders. And we've enjoyed the work. It's been robust, it's been rigorous, and it has been fun. And therefore, you'll get a chance to meet that person today and hear her story about what she's about. And what you'll notice behind this is the set of values that go in there, the high achievement values, the integrity values that more in holes in there are clear in there. And the sense of fun you got in the background from that and delighted to be able to share a podcast and this space with you with Maureen Finn.

Colin Hunter: 01:59

Hey, folks, and welcome to another episode of the leadership Tales podcast today. Delighted to be joined by Maureen Finn, old friends, colleagues, clients. I mean, we go way back. So it's a delight to share the story. She's part of the book. In fact, she's more than parches a strong thread throughout the book in terms of our relationship and our partner in the work we've done. So Maureen, welcome.

Maureen Finn: 02:24

Thanks, Colin. It's great to be here. Thanks for having me.

Colin Hunter: 02:27

Looking forward to digging into your story. And every time I hear more parts of your story. I didn't know that. I didn't know that whenever we get together. So I'd love us to just explore but maybe for the folks listening today, just introduce yourself more. And just tell us a bit about who you are. And a bit of your background. Yeah,

Maureen Finn: 02:44

sure. Maureen Finn I am, I am currently with Takeda Pharmaceuticals, and I am responsible for leader development in the US business unit. And you know, what we're doing is where we're developing leaders at all levels. So we think about not just folks that lead others, but everyone is a leader. And we think about how do we bring out the best in people? How do we make them comfortable, being in their skin and making them a little uncomfortable to get them their show? So that's really what I'm doing today; I come from a long background of this type of work. I started. I won't say how long ago.

Collin Hunter: 03:20

Yeah

Maureen Finn: 03:21

But I started out as a teacher. And so I taught fourth and fifth grade and just love that works. And so if you have forward into your career, and you think, Gosh, how do I take those skills and transfer them to where I am today, many years later. And it was fairly easy, because, you know, I was I taught fourth and fifth graders, and sometimes I joke and say, teaching adults is it's about the same as teaching fourth and fifth graders. But all kidding aside, it was almost seamless to take those skills and transfer them into the world of learning and development in the corporate environment. And that's where I've spent the last 20 some odd years in the corporate environment doing this kind of work. So. So it's been a great journey so far. And I just adore the work that I do. I love to see leaders, all different types of leaders just thrive and grow. It's a real passion of mine.

Colin Hunter 4:13

That's bright. I love the educational background. Because you know, I'm a big fan of Ken Robinson, who did that amazing TED talk. And I think you and I share this is when you know he was he was talking about the little girl at the back of the class who's drawing and the teacher comes up and says so what are you drawing? She said I'm drawing. God said so well. Nobody knows what God looks like. So we'll give it a few minutes and they will

Maureen Finn: 04:38

Ohh love that

Colin Hunter: 04:38

you know that I just love that story about imagination. And that's part of the work that we've been doing along the way. Your faith is very important to you, though, so that that faith in bringing that into the is an important bit of what the work you've done and

Maureen Finn: 04:52

absolutely critical. It is. It's my faith that is a big part of my life. And I'm not, you know, I am Catholic. I'm thrilled to be a Catholic. I love my faith, and I love it. I love other faiths too, but I live my faith. And it really comes from my parents who were just who are thinking, thank God, they're still here, the foundation of that faith that has taken me through a lot of different trials and tribulations and a lot of happy happiness in my life. So I bring that into my work in the work that I do. Because, gosh, you know, it's so important to treat people as human beings and remember that, and that faith grounds me because it's, you know, you say to yourself, What are we all here for? Right? What do we, you know, be kind, and I, even in my email signature, and I'm a part of my email signature, cultivate kindness because it's so easy to stray from that. And if we're just kind to one another and treat people, you know, with respect and love, have, you know, not necessarily had, you know, they might want to be treated, but how you think others should be treated. And to me, it's all about respect. And in the faith is just a common thread for me. And it's just; it's what keeps me going, frankly, in the good and the bad.

Colin Hunter: 06:00

No, it's good. And when we come to that faith, because I'm a big believer in the purpose and the spirit behind the leader, and working in this, tell me a bit about because Takeda is a Japanese own Pharma company, you're we're in the middle of you know, a global pandemic still in that space. And the work and the purpose behind that work are massively important to what you do. So tell us a bit about Takeda and what they're trying to do and how the leadership piece fits into that.

Maureen Finn: 06:29

So that you're sure so Takeda, you know, I'm so proud to be part of Takeda, because Takeda a lot of companies have values and say they state their values to Takeda, we truly live our values. And we're held accountable for that. And I still respect that. And it's all centered around the patient's, And it's all about making Patient lives better, and you know, hopefully saving lives. But everything we do has patience in the center of it. So when you think about, you know, the work that I do in the leader development space, it's, you know, the leaders that I interface with within that we're developing, may not be Patients facing. But we all know that the work we're doing affects the patient's in the long run. So we really try to instill upon our the leaders as we bring them up through the ranks, our values, and is a part of our value system is we call it PTRB patient's trust reputation business in that order. And that's really important when I first joined, I kept hearing in that order, but when you think about what I just said, the patients in the center, patients always come first. And I still respect that for the way this company operates and its real

Collin Hunter: 07:44

Yeah

Maureen Finn: 07:44

it feels good to be part of, you know, you know, when I thought about joining Takeda, I thought about the work Takeda does, truly saving lives and making, you know, patients lives better if umm if they're living with diseases. And, you know, for me, at this point in my life, in my career, working with an organization that is based on making lives better feels right.

Colin Hunter: 08:07

Yeah. And I suppose one of the key questions in here is, you know, having worked with a couple of pharma organizations, pharma Mike, myself, in my background, there's a piece about how it's one of these global organizations, but it's a Japanese owned, and so that for is a very unique culture, umm to bring to that, and respect. So it's amazing to hear you tell the stories and the patient trust. I love that in the business.

Maureen Finn: 08:35

Yeah

Colin Hunter: 08:35

Business last,

Maureen Hunter: 08:37

Right.

Colin Hunter: 08:37

Let's talk about the leadership side because we go way back. So

Maureen Finn: 08:42

We do

Colin Hunter: 08:42

we've, you know, been involved with a number of pieces of work, and we talked about the leaders and the wider definition of leadership, as well. Tell me a bit about what you're doing currently indicated because there's, there's an interesting journey about talent, and then leaders, and then the growth on that journey on there

Maureen Finn: 09:00

Yes, for sure, we're closely linked with the talent development side of the house, which is so critical, right? I mean, you can't; if you separate the two, it's not going to be as smooth of a process. And I think we think about when we think about the work we do; we keep the learner I call the leader in the center of all that we do. And the work that we're doing here now is really we do, again, focus in the US business unit. And we are really kind of forming a baseline for leaders at all levels because when I came in, there was some great work that had been done. However, we wanted to look at it as how do we have a journey for these leaders? If someone comes in as a new first-line people leader, how do we take them through that journey, and how do we get them with it? They may want to; they may want to progress as a people later in their career. They may choose not to, and we're working through different ways of kind of working with them and allowing them to explore different levels of leadership and how they get there. So we're bringing, you know, we have some, some experiences calling that potential squared and my team we partner very closely with, and we're delivering these experiences that are very impactful. And the participants who are involved in them are coming out saying, Gosh, I am able to take some of these skills that I'm learning in these workshops, and keep in mind, a pandemic world that we're in

Colin Hunter: 10:28

Yup

Maureen Finn: 10:28

These are alive, virtual, right, so we're not in a classroom, which is working out very well for us. But they're taking these skills back to the workplace. And not only am I hearing that from them, but I'm also hearing that from their leaders, which is so critical that other folks are seeing this behavioral change in the workplace. So we have an experience for frontline leaders, we have an experience for the director level population, and then we're developing different experiences for the VP and above population are also looking at emerging leaders. So, folks that are appointing a career, where they, you know, they think, Gosh, someday I want to be a leader of others and when someone says that to me, based on me, at this point, vast experience, my first question is why right?

Colin Hunter: 11:13

Why?

Maureen Finn: 11:13

And it's not cynical. It's, why is it that you at this point in your career, want to lead others and some folks have, you know, I, you know, I thrive in that environment, I love to teach, I love to watch people grow. And others say I think that's my next step in my career. So some people think of it as that's my career progression. Others think of it a little deeper, in terms of this is where I want my career to go.

Colin Hunter: 11:36

Yeah. And what I love about what you've created there is that people get the chance to explore, Because I'm a big believer, because there are some people who do as you say when you ask the question, why some of them don't know, naturally, you know, leading people is tough. You know, there's a lot of hard conversation to have, and particularly during the pandemic, it's been a massive lift.

Maureen Finn: 11:58

YEAH

Colin Hunter: 11:58

For leaders in theirs.

Maureen Finn: 11:59

For Sure.

Colin Hunter: 12:00

And some people are just saying, you know, once I get to that, I realized I don't want to do that.

Maureen Finn: 12:04

Right

Colin Hunter: 12:04

Want to be subject matter experts, and particularly in pharma, you can go down that route and be very, very successful in theirs.

Maureen Finn: 12:10

Exactly

Colin Hunter: 12:10

Yeah,

Maureen Finn: 12:11

And we, you know, we want to be those folks and get in together with potential squared, we want to be the folks that say to those people that say, you know, what, I don't think I want to do that. It's okay. If you have a place in this company, I look at people who are strong, individual contributors, whether they're subject matter experts or whatever their role is their goals. And we have to look at them and really think about what are their needs because, in many organizations, I don't think Takeda is unique here, you know, we have them, we have the 80% of the population that is kind of over in the side because we're focusing a lot of our energy and our money, frankly, on the people, leaders.

Colin Hunter: 12:51

Yeah,

Maureen Finn: 12:51

So we're starting to really not rethink we're going to keep our focus here. But how do we pull those other folks in because it's so important to the organization and our business objectives?

Colin Hunter: 13:01

And also, as we delay or and we take you to know wider spans of accountability in there are people in there who we still need to, we've called this in the past together, succeeding without authority. So getting into that space about it being impactful. I mean, there's a big debate about, you know, management leadership, but

Maureen Finn: 13:18

Right,

Colin Hunter: 13:19

we've, we've always agreed that no matter where you are in an organization, whatever level you're a leader,

Maureen Finn: 13:24

Absolutely

Colin Hunter: 13:25

that's the accountability in there. So

Maureen Finn: 13:27

And Takeda, and you mentioned, you know, succeeding without authority, you know, ticket, we are a highly matrix organization. I mean, we're, you know, we're 55,000 employees worldwide. And so you can imagine how you know, and how the company looks and very does in, so folks need to know how it feels good about surviving and leaving in a matrix and thriving in a matrix. So a lot of the work we do, whether it's with the leaders of others, or individual contributors, that it's so critical, so folks can navigate, you know, the matrix.

Colin Hunter: 14:02

I always love that piece of that, you know, we train the leaders, but we don't train the followers.

Maureen Finn: 14:05

Yeah.

Collin Hunter: 14:06

And I see sometimes training the followers allows the leader to have a better ride, but also gets better prepared for the

Maureen Finn: 14:12

Agreed††

Collin Hunter: 14:12

And what we're trying to do in the future.

Maureen Finn: 14:14

Yeah

Collin Hunter: 14:15

I wanted to go into a bit of your career and background because not only you were a teacher, but you came into this space from a very different angle, which I always like; it's almost it. Sometimes if you get somebody who's been an HR professional learning professional all the way through, there's not a reality, or they don't have the business context, or they have to work harder. So tell us a bit about your background and how you got into this because it's a nice story. Yeah.

Maureen Finn: 14:39

See, when I left, you know, teaching a course I went into, you know, a corporate environment, and I wore a lot of hats in this organization that was a startup, and we were growing. So I sold I was I decided to take on a sales role because to me, I had in my head that I wanted to lead others, but I was at that point in my career, my life I wasn't sure exactly why I had that. My head to head for it. So I decided to sell. And so I did become, in spite of myself because I'm not a salesperson, I'm the first to admit it's not my skill set, but I was very successful selling their products and services. And so what that did was it put a spotlight on me and for the leadership of the organization to say, Okay, let's look at her and what is she capable of? And back? I'll say back then. I won't say when. But, It was like, okay,

Colin Hunter: 15:27

all right, just more

Maureen Finn: 15:31

spotlight on this person. And back then, it was like, Okay, we need to get her into a management role right back then. So. So, you know, I had a couple of opportunities early in my career, that organization to take on I'll call people leadership role, and I refused. And I knew it could be career-limiting. But I had very good reasons. Even as young as I was, I had very good reasons and those reasons where I need to better understand this company because if I'm going to take on that responsibility to lead other people, I better understand who we are, how we operate, what makes us tick, and our products and services. So I stayed in sales for a couple of years. And then I, I, I acquiesced in, I took on a leadership role. And I loved it. I absolutely positively love it. I learned a lot; I made a tonne of mistakes. I had wonderful mentors along the way. But boy, did I love it. And it was just a this is this feels right. I can teach. I was teaching people how to sell, which brings in my educational experience. And I was also just guiding people. And I just love to mentor; I just love it. I just love to be able to talk to someone, understand what some of their needs are, maybe some of the challenges and what is their successes, and capitalize on that. So I took that. And then I moved from there after many years. Again, we'll keep that disclosed. I won't disclose that I should say; I moved into high tech. I was in tech, but I moved into a high-tech environment. And I went into that organization. I was recruited there to build out the sales enablement function that it threads from where I was right, I was sales leadership, you know, I ran a sales organization 200 people when I was at my performance at that other organization where I started. And so these folks had, gosh, she's got that experience. She knows how salespeople pick; she's got, you know, I developed sales leaders. So I went into this organization, I had some marketing responsibility, I built out a sales enablement function. And we were very successful. We develop leaders as well, we the sales leaders. So we had this massive need in my prior organization for developing leaders, and it was in a term that was used was manager capabilities, which was how they identified the need. And so I was tasked and said, Listen, would you come over? And would you think about how do we develop our leaders globally? And I jumped at the opportunity. And that brought me into the world of HR L & D . And so what we did, and this is where Colin and his team, your team came into the picture, we partnered, and I did my own needs analysis, I really spent I spent a good year trying to understand where were we? Do we have any form of a baseline in terms of where are people leaders were in what did we have to do? We had to put; we had put a†solid multi-year plan together that we could execute against. So my sales experience came in very handy, because I sell this to the company, because all they were you know, in their mind, Maureen's go develop the leaders, will you Okay, sure. But there's more to it than just that, you know, that, you know, go train them, and everything will be fine. And we all know that, that we all have a different mindset now. So we developed a very comprehensive, multi-year strategy together. And, you know, we did great work, we really did Colin, and we, you know, we had, we had a lot of challenges, right?

Colin Hunter: 18:58

Yeah

Maureen Finn: 18:58

And we, we opened our minds up, and this is this comes to me, I'm an introvert. And some folks that someone said to me, someone laughed at me the other day when I saw you know, and I'm an introvert, she thought that was the funniest thing she had ever heard. But I work hard in the environments that I need to be, you know, to show myself as an extrovert. So being that introvert that I am, I really have to push myself internally too, to stretch, right to take on different challenges that may be the folks around me I'm thinking about, and I know I'm going to have to push hard. But you know, we did that, and we and we got I got comfortable being uncomfortable with a lot of different scenarios and things that we hadn't tried out. But we found great success, and we won. We want a couple of amazing awards, you know, because when we started this journey, you know, we were thinking, for me, if I'm spending the company's money, I better understand how am I gonna measure success and how am I going to know? Where are we successful? Spending my company's money together potential squared. Now we come up with a plan of how, you know, we said, we know how to do level one, we know how to do those smile sheets, we know how to say how was the class was great wasn't it? What can we do better coming out? However, the challenge again, back then, was only a few years ago with that level, measuring behavioral change, and we call it to level three because it's based on a model. But so, how do you measure behavioral change? And so I said to my company within the partnership with potential squared, we're growing there because we don't go there. We never will. So we're just going to go there. And we're going to figure it out. And as we start to figure it out, and we've networked, you know, we get the outside-in perspective, companies just was saying, we can't figure this thing out. It's much too hard. So its companies haven't gotten there yet. But I said, you know, we're going there. And that's where that being uncomfortable. You get comfortable, being uncomfortable. You know, it's that unknown, how are we going to get there, very few companies have gone there. But we went there. And we did a successful, and we went to Brandon hope all gold award for that work we did. So.

Colin Hunter: 21:09

And I love the fact that we focused on the measurement because, that is,

Maureen Finn: 21:13

Correct

Colin Hunter: 21:13

You know, the return-on-investment piece is massive now for people, and it's a return and learning return on investment. But I want to come back to this because there where there are moments of being uncomfortable. And I always remember our relationship. And probably the same for you, which was you had emails, and you had phone calls between us. And we were sort of waiting; we had that refreshingly direct piece coming through, we were waiting.

Maureen Finn: 21:37

Yes

Colin Hunter: 21:37

for something because we were stretching so hard. We were waiting for things to go wrong in a nice way, in a positive way. And a number of things happen that way. But that trust, because there was a trust, there was you know, there used to joke Trust Me, I'm a doctor's son. But there was a trusted piece that we are on a pathway and a journey.

Maureen Finn: 21:57

Absolutely

Colin Hunter: 21:58

You had to look back at one of those times; what was the most trying time for you? What was the time when you almost felt? Wow. Can we do this? Yeah. Because we have our moments, don't wait,

Maureen Finn: 22:10

do we have our moments? I think I think one of them was in my former organization where we were doing this global company, right. And, you know, we really, we kept that global, we thought we kept that global lens on and we said, Okay, we're going to be, you know, we're going to think about, you know, be culturally aware. And you know, we're using all the right words, right? But we went into the Japanese market Colin and remember, we went, boy, did we fail, right?

Colin Hunter: 22:35

Yeah

Maureen Finn: 22:36

Because we just as much as we were prepared. We weren't,

Colin Hunter: 22:42

Yeah

Maureen Finn: 22:42

we weren't prepared for what we faced. And we thought we had done all the work; we thought we had made the right connections and bedded. And when we got there, we just hadn't.

Colin Hunter: 22:54

Yeah

Maureen Finn: 22:54

And that was hard that in that it, I don't want to say I was gutted because we had so many other good things going on. But it was hard; it was very hard because it really felt like it pulled down all the wonderful work we've been doing and minimized all the effectiveness we had elsewhere. Because of this, I called it a failure. I felt like it was a failure. Right. And so, you know, to navigate that to get through that. And, you know, initially, I won't say it's that good was, I felt a little defensive, like, oh, my gosh, we did this we did that we did, we

Colin Hunter: 23:28

Yeah

Maureen Finn: 23:28

really was thoughtful about that approach in that market. That it didn't, it just didn't resonate.

Colin Hunter: 23:34

Yeah

Maureen Finn: 23:34

So that was one of the ones it was; it was a hard

Colin Hunter: 23:38

Yeah

Maureen Finn: 23:35

one to get through. We got through it. But it was

Colin Hunter: 23:41

it was fascinating the learn on that. Because you know, Michael landers are good friends about cultural car crashes. And it was one of those. It was one of the unnaturally even just the making up. And, you know, due diligence afterward was tough.

Maureen Finn: 23:58

Trust, But we had to re-earn this trust like we actually knew what we were doing.

Colin Hunter: 24:05

Yeah,

Maureen Finn: 24:06

to them. We didn't.

Colin Hunter: 24:05

Yeah, it was, it was amazing. And it's interesting, just looking forward that you've joined a Japanese culture-based company and worked in there. So it's great that we've moved forward. I want to just to come into what you're facing at the moment in your leaders because obviously, COVID is working in different challenges in there. What are you doing at the moment to change maybe some of the things you've been thinking about?

Maureen Finn: 24:29

So our leaders, they are at a place, and I feel very comfortable making a general statement right now.

Colin Hunter: 24:36

Yeah

Maureen Finn: 24:36

They're completely overwhelmed; they're overwhelmed. They're maxed out; they're exhausted. And so we as an organization have paid great attention to our employee base due to COVID. And we've done certainly our engagement surveys, and we've done lots of pulses and every business unit, really think double, triple quick into some of the pain points that the employees are feeling So you know, we as in the work that we're doing very conscious of that. And what we're, we're trying to do, even though these folks are stretched, And it's a goal for them right now to have any time, when we get them in that virtual collide classroom, we do that, that the thoughtful moment, in the beginning, tries to leave whatever's on your mind, try to leave it at that virtual door. And we bring them into the moment. And it's, again, kudos to our colleagues, as a potential square in the facilitators doing that very well. And once you get the minds, I call the lid shift. So you're shifting there, though.

Colin Hunter: 25:40

The lid shift, I love it, Yeah

Maureen Finn: 25:41

And once we do that slight lid shift, they're in there at the moment, and they leave two hours later, going, Gosh, this was just an amazing isn't my time. And you feel like, maybe we're helping the greater good here, because we know, the overwhelming feeling is I am exhausted, I can't get away from my computer. I'm on, you know, on teams all day and video all day. So, you know, we're very much aware of that. And we're also what we did was, we did, we did a second think on, we first and you were involved in this Colin, we first thought about, we based our experiences on our leadership behaviors because I mean, again, in our leadership behaviors, you know, everything flows into our values. So we did like a second look at this, when we really understood the reality of folk's mindsets, and said, from a content perspective, let's make sure we hold the content of the show and overwhelm them. Because when they come into this classroom, they are so darn engaged. And I can't filter through whether this is due to, they took that moment to breathe, they're in, and they're, they're sharing, and they get so much out of that peer to peer sharing, it's just wonderful to see, you know, our facilities we make, you know, real-time calls, say, You know what, we're not going to cover that content, because we're not going to say to them, let's stop sharing. So we can cover this piece. It's just, that's just not how we operate as a partnership. So we've been very thoughtful about that based on the conditions of business conditions. And it's not necessarily to cater to business conditions. It's, it's the conditions that have been created because of this global pandemic. But boy, this company's been so thoughtful about their employees; I can't say enough of how wonderful they've created us through this.

Colin Hunter: 27:24

And what I love about that is, you know, one of the things that we're picking up is, is when COVID hits the use of the online, the virtual week have better scores during the virtual than we do face to face, which we couldn't believe. But there's now this shift where that was very useful for people to engage in; we found out some not putting general stereotypes on it.

Maureen Finn: 27:45

Yeah

Colin Hunter: 27:45

But you know, the people who are quieter found abuse easier to engage on the virtual side.

Maureen Finn: 27:51

Great

Colin Hunter: 27:51

But we're actually finding now that the content that people are doing self-learning, they're finding very little time to do it.

Maureen Finn: 27:59

Correct

Colin Hunter: 27:59

So stripping some of that stuff out. And then I think there's this piece, which you're saying now, which is having a conversation, a real conversation. But you know, I love that somebody once said to me, he said, you can tell a leader that's affected by what they're taking out of their life, rather than what they're adding.

Maureen Finn: 28:16

Yeah

Colin Hunter: 28:16

And giving people more space to talk in more depth is what you're talking about there. Which is amazing. Yeah

Maureen Finn: 28:22

Yeah, for sure. And I facilitated and, you know, I'm in many of the sessions, and I'm always just amazed at the level of engagement. And they're just sharing what's working, what's not, and, and it's just honestly, it's that's where it happens. That is where the magic happens. And you're right about the content, the online content. They do, right. They don't; some people love it. And they, but I think they haven't there right now an anomaly, but it's fair for them if they need it. If it's back up, it's a resource. But I still to your point you just made. I think this shift to right now virtual environment really has been a gift to those; I'll just generalize introverted community, where they can have a voice in these types of sessions. Because first of all, we make them very comfortable saying, if you're comfortable sharing, share, share, come off-mic share if you're not sharing the chat. Well, that's a dream for a true introvert to be able to share this thinking in chat because they can actually articulate what they're thinking but not have that slight anxiety of saying something out loud. So it's been a tremendous advantage for some of those folks in this environment.

Colin Hunter: 29:34

I also just think the use of the actors as well, and you know,

Maureen Finn: 29:38

Oh yeah

Colin Hunter: 29:38

again, I was a big doubter, whether we could do the actors online, but I, I think there's something it's almost that people have got used to watching TV, you know,

Maureen Finn: 29:46

Right

Colin Hunter: 29:46

you got the two actors on the screen; they're able to reality TV interact with conversations. So that has been a powerful piece. But the conversation that people have to have now virtually is very different. It's, you know, when You used to be able to sit over a coffee or see the same building, it's. So they are

Maureen Finn: 30:04

very different, very, very different. But just to kind of go back to your point of the actors, that's something that the folks, at least in this organization, have never experienced. So that was, you know, another, you know, something, I had a cell internally that we're going to use professional actors. And you know, when people hear that, they're thinking, what are you going to do?†What†In God's name are you doing, but do we use it in coaching and other things, and we most recently use it and, and I knew, because of our experience, that would be a huge hit. But I had, I had a slight little bit of anxiety over the virtual piece. It's wonderful. It's absolutely wonderful.

Colin Hunter: 30:40

Yeah.

Maureen Finn: 30:40

Because you've got this captive audience, and you spotlight those two actors, playing, you know, doing this real play. So

Colin Hunter: 30:47

Yeah, what I also love, and this is a sneak under the hood, is that the actors can actually be online and listen to some of the content beforehand because I think there's something about what we're teaching people and then what they do in the role plays that they get involved in, which has been really useful. So people being able to listen, the actors have said that that's incredibly useful.

Maureen Finn: 31:07

to Your point, Colin, where we don't use, you know, some made-up scenario, we're using scenarios that they're facing in their day-to-day work again, generally because we've got cross-functional cohorts. But you know, I said, we Takeda I say it, you know, we make it, so it's relevant to them in their life at Takeda, it's not just talking about selling tires, or some company that does something completely different than what we do. And people appreciate that.

Colin Hunter: 31:31

Yeah, they can hear the language, and they can hear the issues and the pain points they got in there. So I want to come to towards the end of this because I want us to almost, it's not the life and the times all the times in the life or whatever the expression is, but it's it is if more Enfin was sitting there and saying so what are the two-three influences in her career that she would say, have been the game-changer, the thing that has really driven because you, you have incredibly high standards for yourself, you set them high, you expect them of people around you, which is great, and I've loved being part of that. But the two to three things that are really made a difference to what they've been.

Maureen Finn: 32:11

So I would say one was a couple of mentors that I had along the way that is as tough as it was when I was starting out in my career. We all have our personalities, right? And when you're younger, you just, you're authentic. We're all authentic, but you're authentic when you show up in the workplace. And I had one mentor that he saw the value in me and my skills and my background. But he gave me a mirror one day, and this is not, you know, folks hear this all the time. But he gave me a mirror. I said, What's this for? He says Maureen, I what I want you to do, I want you to put it on your monitor. You know, if someone comes into your office and you're interfacing with someone, I want you to kind of look at that mirror, look at your face, and see what message you're delivering to the person, whether it's across the table or across the room, get used to that, which was so impactful. And I didn't. I was so grateful for that. I wasn't offended. Because back when I was growing up, you know, my face the way my standing face is my mouth goes down. It's I can't fix that. I guess I can't. I'm not going to.

Colin Hunter: 38:18

Yeah,

Maureen Finn: 38:18

And growing up, people called me thunderclouds. And I'm like, Why do you call me that? You know, but just my natural like, in a business environment. I don't expect people to know me or understand me and know that I'm not a thundercloud. So that was one. That was a huge one for me. And another one was, I don't know the moment in time, but it's the art of building trust, right? I don't have volumes of friends. But I've got my tribe; I call them my tribe. And that's, it's a small unit. And that's kind of who I am. So I'm one to your point. I think it might be about standards, but more it has to do with my standards, my personality, introversion, and then my needing to trust.

Colin Hunter: 34:12

Yeah,

Maureen Finn: 34:12

and when you're able to kind of understand why some of your actions come from your need to trust. It's not that I don't trust people, but I need to feel comfortable in it because I'm one that will, I'm loyal to the bone, I will do anything for anyone. It is as long as I feel as though I can trust them. So I think I don't know, Colin, when I learned that in my career. But once that hit, you know, I realized that I could use not use this but leverage this to my advantage in this business environment. So you learn how to get to know people at a different level, understand who they are, know that maybe you can build great trust, maybe it won't be a high level, and that's okay, too. That's all right. But for me, these high standards that I that's again, who I am, I set the highest standards for myself. But you know, folks said, I feel as though I can bring into my cone of trust, I set those stands to them as well. And I think you know, and that was, you know when you build a team to you build it around that, and what it for me, once you have that you can do anything, absolutely anything. And that's what we,

Colin Hunter: 35:18

Yeah

Maureen Finn: 35:18

you and I and your team we're able to build, I trust you and your team to do the right thing to act responsibly. You always had my back in the environment because we all asked for the same goal. And we kept each other honest.

Colin Hunter: 35:34

Yeah

Maureen Finn: 35:34

So, again, it was like the mirror and then that that aha moment when this trust, this is a real thing for me. I didn't know what it was and why you know, but that's what it is for me. So,

Colin Hunter: 35:46

and I would add one thing on there because what I have seen for you always and particularly in your former organization was your ability to build trust with the business, from your learning, you know, your ability to walk along the corridor and see people when people come to your office and talk to you. And you looked at the Indian team and how you developed that trust. And I think there's something about putting yourself in the shoes of others that you do beautifully.

Maureen Finn: 36:12

Yeah, and that was, you know, one more short story is, you know, you mentioned my Indian team, which I absolutely adored. And the talk about building trust with that culture unless you really, truly make that effort to build the trust, you won't get true loyalty or true mutual trust. And I'll never forget when I was asked to build this team and then take on a team, and, you know, I met them on video, and here I am. And they were like, Who is this crazy blonde woman? Because, you know, I spoke very quickly. And I needed to make connections at a deeper level; I was doing nothing intentional. But being who I looked at, you know, I asked myself, so the business was very, very generous in giving me some private tutoring on the Indian culture. And that's all I knew. That's all I needed to find out. And it just I just took my genuine personality and applied it. And it was magical. And what an amazing team I had; they were amazing.

Colin Hunter: 37:17

Yeah.

Maureen Finn: 37:17

Yup

Colin Hunter: 37:14

And also helped us to love getting up early, which was a bit like me. So you were able to do the calls that early on. I love the mirror a bit too. Because you know, being bright and breezy, whatever it is 5:36 o'clock in the morning, you're on is, is an important but.

Maureen Finn: 37:30

Yeah,

Colin Hunter: 37:31

I always get the bit that I look angry. But I'm actually thinking, so I've worked out the one I'm thinking I look angry, and it's just gonna look you Okay? Are you okay? Yeah, I'm thinking,

Maureen Finn: 37:43

yeah, yeah.

Colin Hunter: 37:43

Well, it's like,

Maureen Finn: 37:43

But they don't know that.

Colin Hunter: 37:44

Yeah, brain capacity is limited. So I've got to work harder, which is why I'm scrunching. So often, we could talk for days and days, no relationship, and how it has been superb to work with you. The prizes, the awards, and everything else is one thing, but actually, they come on some hard work. That's been a joy to be part of it. With you

Maureen Finn: 38:08

Likewise, it is a great journey. So far, it's in, and we keep ongoing. So,

Colin Hunter: 38:12

exactly. Here's part two of the podcast, when we talk about how we come out of this pandemic and how we are looking forward to seeing the results of what we're doing indicator and seeing how we're progressing that that'd be the next phase. So

Maureen Finn: 38:25

well, it will show itself. I look forward to that as well.

Colin Hunter: 38:28

Maureen, thank you again.

Maureen Finn: 38:30

Thanks, Colin, thanks so much.

Colin Hunter: 38:38

Well, that was Maureen Finn. And what can I say whenever you meet somebody who works with somebody who has strength, character value sets that the match is yours and you want to work with, then it's a delight to hear their story, and we will continue to work together. I'm sure for many years to come. And what I will look forward to on that is exactly what you heard today, that drive that changes that she wants to make and whatever she does, and we're just delighted that it's in a space which is around leadership management, employee development, in the work that she does and Takeda now so I will look forward to welcome you back for other stories of other remarkable people. And thank you for joining me on the leadership tales podcast.